Anne-Marie Duff was out for a walk on Londonâs Hampstead Heath, drinking an oat-milk latte (âBecause Iâm an actress!â) when suddenly she was surrounded by a group of men. They were red-faced runners in Lycra, âvery affluent, very sophisticated middle-aged guys, and they stopped me on the path.â She was startled. Yes, sheâs famous, having been familiar to British viewers ever since her breakthrough in Paul Abbottâs Shameless 20 years ago, but even so, hers has never been the âstop you for an autographâ kind of fame, more the discerning nod, the briefly clasped âthank youâ hands. They wanted to talk to her, they said, âto ask what I thought about a friend of theirs. They were worried.â
Duff quickly understood. The men had seen the multi-award winning black comedy Bad Sisters, in which Duffâs character, Grace, is a victim of coercive abuse by âthe Prickâ, her husband, whose death haunts the series. Duff has explored abuse on screen before â sheâs worked with Womenâs Aid and played a woman escaping violence in Born Equal â but this is the first time, she says, that the work has resonated not just with women, but men, too. Posh men. âMen who were sweating all over me.â They gave examples of their friendâs abusive behaviour to his partner, âand I said, âYeah, to be honest, that doesnât sound great.ââ She gave them some advice and suggested they encourage their wives to support their friendâs wife and went on her way. âActually I felt sort of flattered, you know? Because itâs like, we nailed it. We did it properly.â
Duff, now 54, has been acting professionally since 1994, having first been encouraged to join a youth theatre by her parents, who thought it might help with her crippling shyness. They were a working-class Irish family in west London and, despite her suspicion that âpeople like meâ didnât become actors, she went on to study at the prestigious Drama Centre (known colloquially as the âtrauma centreâ, so rigorous were its methods). Decades of acclaim followed, culminating last year in a Bafta for her role in Bad Sisters.
The new series is typically dark and surprising. âItâs really extraordinary, in fact,â she says, âbecause, it has such a different smell, doesnât it?â In the first series Grace was the object â widowed at the start, the story dragged us backwards into the weeds of her abusive marriage. Without giving too much away, in the new series she becomes the subject. Talking to co-star Fiona Shaw about the twist, âShe was like, âHoney, youâre everywhere in the showâ¦ââ Her accent is impeccable. ââEven when youâre not there, youâre everywhere.ââ
She plays Grace with typical Duff-ian nuance and beauty. âGrace was an incredibly difficult part to play,â admits Sharon Horgan, the showâs creator. âBut for Anne-Marie it was always about creating a fully believable atmosphere for the character. Then sheâll do anything. Sheâs incredible.â
âI had never played anybody that opaque before,â says Duff. âYou know, that lost. I found it overwhelming, inhabiting that little soul, that lost wisp of a woman for that long. But Iâm always up for telling stories about a section of societyâs difficult reality. Itâs important, isnât it? Because if you do that well, the effect is profound.â
The only time sheâs received a similar depth of response to that of Bad Sisters was when she played Joan of Arc on stage, and got letters from young Christian women battling with their faith. Itâs a responsibility she takes seriously. She takes the work seriously. âThis is the thing about life, your intentions are what is received. So if you take the issue seriously, people take you seriously. Or if youâre worried about certain things, then those things are what people will focus on. You know, gestureâs bigger than any sentence. Thatâs what it feels like to me.â
âWhat makes acting with Anne-Marie so enjoyable,â says Rory Kinnear, who starred opposite her in the National Theatreâs production of Macbeth, âis that, like all great actors, she always seems to exist completely in the moment. As if sheâs saying the lines for the first time, as if, in fact, sheâs only just thought of them to say.â Sheâs fearless, he says, with a preparedness to fail that only can come alongside a complete lack of personal vanity. âShe is also one of the great laughers, and manages to imbue her work with such tenderness, depth and delicacy while refusing to ever take herself too seriously. She has magic in her.â
When directors approach Duff, what does she think theyâre looking for? âI donât know, pal. Iâm not being disingenuous, I promise Iâm not.â She thinks for a second. âI suppose Iâm quite courageous? And I guess people like to have their shit taken seriously. Itâs nice when someone can come in and go, âYeah, Iâm going to commit to this.ââ She explains what that looks like, the act of taking a story seriously. âWell the flaws are the sexy bits. But I do spend a lot of time worrying about getting into the very truth of something, you know? Because those are the bits that surprise people.â
Does that commitment come from studying in a strict conservatoire environment? âYes, but I think there has to be an element of the fact of where it came from, too, whatâs at stake. Because there wasnât any other option for me, in terms of falling back on anything. There wasnât anyone who could help me, you know? You get this extraordinary work ethic if you have a pinch of impostor syndrome. And I think if youâve got a vagina that can partly be an element of it, too.â Thereâs no trick to being a good actor, she adds, no trick to being an artist. âDo you think Mark Rylance just tips up? Fuck off! All the brilliant people work their asses off. Good luck,â she says, pointing a gentle finger, âis just working hard.â
Duff herself seems jolly, settled and steely â she brings a low sort of light to the room, yet the characters she leans towards are women in crisis, women at a point of change, âBecause who wants to be the one putting Supermanâs cape on him and saying, âHave a great day, darling?ââ Not her. While sheâs still seeing a lack of meaty parts for women on screen, âWeâre getting there slowly, slowly. The incrementalism feels a bit like weâre taking larger strides now. But it is a curious time when it comes to gender. I think we do still have to be vigilant.â
And not just in terms of art. She co-parents her teenage son with her ex-husband James McAvoy, who she met on the set of Shameless and divorced in 2016. Itâs a âscaryâ time to be a woman, she says, let alone a feminist, let alone a mother of a boy. âI think the rhetoric around it is frustrating sometimes,â she says slowly. âLike, I donât love the expression âtoxic masculinityâ, because masculinity is a describing noun, isnât it? Is all masculinity toxic? Itâs like saying, âpathetic femininityâ.â Her face crumples into an expression of pain. âMy worry is that there are a lot of young boys who think itâs innate.â
A friend told her a story the other day, âa very sad storyâ about a 13-year-old boy they knew who was having counselling because he thought there was an inevitability about him becoming a rapist. âWe have to be so careful with our young people,â she says, who want to be good, but meet obstacles at every turn. Like her son, who has complained multiple times about racist posts to TikTok, she sighs, but had no response. âOur kids are growing up in a world that makes no sense. People say, but donât do, a lot of the time.â Not Duff, though.
One afternoon she had just come offstage at the National when she got a call from her GP. Her brother had walked into the surgery and asked for help â he didnât know where he was. Eddie was around 40, when, Duff says, âI just started noticing funny wee things. All of the classics, itâs always the classics. Trouble making tea, getting on the bus, couldnât work, pay rent, and me just thinking, what the hell is going on here?â After he walked into the doctorâs surgery, he was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimerâs and Duffâs life suddenly pitched quite sharply to the left.
âItâs heartbreaking. But the gift that it gives you is⦠itâs very hard to explain.â When youâre with him, she says, âYouâre so with him. Everything else kind of evaporates, you know, because youâre so focused on just those moments. We donât know how long weâll have with him, because itâs one of those bastards of a disease where the prognosis is a question mark, so you have to really treasure it. And any of the sticky old nonsense you have from the past, any of your minor complex familial crap that you carry around with you, itâs all gone. Because them not remembering it means you donât have to either.â Sheâs closer to him than sheâs ever been, as is her son, âand thatâs beautiful. People call it, donât they, the long goodbye?â
Sheâs turned down roles in the past that overlapped with her experience with Eddie, stories about Alzheimerâs, as they felt too close, âand for my mum and dad, I thought it might be overwhelming.â Sheâd consider, maybe, directing something on the subject. But at the moment, âIâm literally like a dog pulling at the lead, Iâm so excited to get back on stage again,â in a production of The Little Foxes at the Young Vic. What excites her about theatre? âBecause itâs like this now, itâs just like you and me. And there is nothing as thrilling as the moment you change the temperature in the room. As soon as you say âI love youâ to someone on stage, the whole room will gasp. How fucking sexy is that? You feel like a rock star. You want to turn around sometimes and go to the audience, âI know, right?ââ
Sheâs known this feeling for decades, ever since those first performances as a kid. The realisation that came with acting, the discovery that, âWeâre all interesting, all of us. And thatâs what drama does really give you. The notion, actually, everyoneâs fucking fascinating.â And acting made her feel safe, too. âI love the security, however unhealthy this sounds, of the fact that itâs not random, like life. Itâs the beginning, the middle and the end. And even if you die in act five, you know youâre going to die. So Iâve always felt there was a great comfort in that, and that it made everything dealable with in a way that real life doesnât.â
Another lovely thing about being an actor, she says, is that, âIt keeps you young. Because you have to be curious all the time. You keep working, you keep staying interested. And feeling like youâre not finished yet.â Does she think often about age? âOf course! Itâs a bit like people who deny the fact that theyâve got childcare. Itâs such a lie. Everyone thinks about age. I have to look at my ageing face on the screen, which,â she laughs hollowly, âis not easy. But Iâm trying to see the beauty in it. Iâm at this weird little phase where I look at my face and go, âOh, age has brought me a couple of really nice things.â I donât like the lines, but I like the shape of my cheekbones now. You have to try, donât you, and see the little gifts it gives you.â
And beyond appearance, she likes the way age increases her âbreadthâ, how being around teenagers especially, âkeeps you engaged, in the way the tides come in and out, and how things are changing. Even though you hate having to listen to Travis Scott on the drive into school, thereâs something about it, too, that makes you go, âOh, really? Thatâs what people are interested in?â Itâs amazing, itâs curious.â
She sees it as a great privilege, too, to be able to âtry on versions of yourselfâ on stage. âThatâs why you never want people to know all your stuff. Because it spoils that energy.â For years after Duffâs split with McAvoy the story of their relationship followed her, generating its own headlines, partly because, perhaps, she refused to discuss it. People âknowing your stuff weakens you â you need that energy to put it into the work.â The energy emerges in unexpected places. Sheâll be saying her lines when suddenly, she says, sheâll remember something that happened when she was 25, or sheâll burst into tears.
âSometimes I go into my kidâs school and help out with young actors. And you can see it happening very clearly, because young people are so translucent, you see it all moving around, coursing through them.â She shivers slightly, at the thrill of it, the danger of connection. There was a moment in 2000, playing the suicidal Nora in Ibsenâs A Dollâs House, when she froze on stage â the danger had come too close. âYes, I had a moment where I worried I was going mad. I went, âOh, my God, is this me? Or is this the character?ââ She walked offstage. âBut thatâs what audiences want. They want you to push yourself. Right to the edge of the cliff.â She opens her blue eyes wide and then wider still.
Sometimes Duff thinks sheâd like to pause the acting for a while and write a book. But then sheâll stop, and think, âOr do I just want to play the role of a writer? Maybeâ¦â Does she feel like that then, in other areas of her life? Does she sometimes wonder if, rather than living it, she just wants to play the role of a mother, a friend, a person sitting in an office in town being interviewed for a magazine? âI suppose I do have the conversation, always the internal dialogue, of âWhat should I be doing right now?â Because lifeâs full of âshouldsâ, isnât it? Theyâre built into being a middle-aged woman. Youâre professional, youâre personal, youâre bloody âcaringâ. Youâre parenting, youâre working, youâre loving. Itâs like being one of those dog walkers with eight dogs!â She mimes, quickly and accurately, being pulled in eight different directions by a series of leads. And youâre still standing? âYeah, I think I am? Iâm never going to be perfect,â she says a little mournfully, then smiles, âbut then, nobody likes perfection, do they?â
Bad Sisters, season two, premieres on Apple TV on 13 November
Fashion editor Jo Jones; hair by Ken OâRourke at C/O Management using Hair by Sam McKnight; makeup by Charlie Duffy using Dior Forever Foundation and Capture Totale Le Serum; nails by Trish Lomax at C/O Management using Manicurist; photographerâs assistant Alfie Bungay; fashion assistant Sam Deaman; shot on location at lordshippark.com