Former President Biden has found his way back into the spotlight more than 100 days after President Trump reclaimed the White House.
Audio, obtained by Axios, from Biden’s October 2023 interview with special counsel Robert Hur about classified documents found in his private home from his time as vice president was published by the outlet on Saturday. A shorter clip was released late Friday.
The five-hour interview comes from Hur’s first day of questioning and appears to show Biden struggling.
While the Department of Justice released a transcript of the conversation last year, the Biden administration had pushed back on releasing the tapes, citing concerns over potential tampering or “deepfakes.”
Hur ultimately ruled that Biden “willfully” kept the documents but suggested a jury would find he is “a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” No charges were filed.
Here’s what to know about the leaked audio.
Special Counsel Robert Hur on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., March 12, 2024. (Photo by Mandel NGAN /AFP)
Lapses of memory, lack of focus
Biden in several points during the interview had to pause mid-sentence while struggling to find the words to say, the audio shows.
The tone of the conversation highlighted the former president’s difficulty remembering timelines or staying on track.
In one instance he struggles to recall the year his son, Beau, died from brain cancer.
Biden was asked by the special counsel to describe his private residence and where he kept the classified documents.
“Well, um … I, I, I, I, I don’t know. This is, what, 2017, 2018, that area?” he replied but quickly diverted into why he didn’t run against Trump in 2016, citing former President Obama’s enthusiasm for former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Later, he added, “I hadn’t walked away from the idea that I may run for office again. But if I ran again, I’d be running for president. And, and so what was happening, though — what month did Beau die? Oh, God, May 30th.”
Two of White House aides interjected to remind him it was 2015 when his son died.
He then struggles to relay the year Trump defeated Clinton in the election.
“And what’s happened in the meantime is that as … Trump gets elected in November of 2017,” Biden continues, which two staffers quickly correct to 2016.
He added, “16. 2016. Alright, so — why do I have 2017 here?”
The numbers appeared to confuse Biden once again, as he returned to the topic of Beau and his younger son Hunter Biden.
“OK, yeah. And in 2017, Beau had passed and — this is personal — the genesis of the book and the title ‘Promise Me, Dad,’ was a — I know you’re all … close with your sons and daughters, but Beau was like my right arm and Hunt was my left.
After he finished glowing, Hur asked Biden if he wanted to take a break, per the audio.
When the transcript was first released in March, the former president pushed back on the notion that he forgot details around Beau’s death.
President Joe Biden speaks from the Oval Office of the White House as he gives his farewell address Wednesday, Jan. 15, 2025, in Washington. (Mandel Ngan/Pool via AP)
Classified documents details
Biden also struggled to explain why he kept certain classified documents after leaving the White House in 2017, the audio shows.
The documents were discovered at an office he previously used when serving as vice president, igniting a later search of his home. In addition to handwritten notes on national security, authorities collected 90 documents from his property, of which a little more than 50 contained classified markings.
During the interview, the former president acknowledged that he may have wanted to keep a document related to foreign policy in Afghanistan “for posterity’s sake.”
Biden had initially said he wasn’t sure why he kept the document when asked for the purpose.
“I, I, I, I don’t know that I knew, but it wouldn’t have … it wasn’t something I would have stopped to think about,” he responded.
“I don’t know if it was going to be the subject of reporting, but I wanted to hang — I guess I wanted to hang onto it just for posterity’s sake,” the former president said. “I mean, this was my position on Afghanistan.”
The reversal likely frustrated his attorneys, who then pressed the special counsel to avoid speculatory questioning that could lead to charges, after which Biden quickly added, “I don’t recall intending to keep this memo.”
His lawyers then asked for a break.
President Joe Biden walking out to speak at a news conference in the Rose Garden at the White House, Tuesday, Nov. 26, 2024, in Washington. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta)
Fully engaged in conversation
Despite the memory lapses and needing assistance on certain words and dates, the audio shows that Biden was fully engaged with the special counsel.
As Axios pointed out, the then-president made numerous jokes and came off like a “nostalgic, grandfatherly storyteller.”
He dived into several memories about the wood and molding he has in refurbished rooms at his house to the Corvette he drove with comedian Jay Leno. He also explained the influence of Gutenberg’s printing press and spoke about former President Nixon’s excessive sweating during a famous 1960 debate with former President Kennedy.
The interview only became testy when his attorney asserted that prosecutors may be trying to implicate Biden with their questioning.
President-elect Donald Trump greets President Joe Biden during the 60th Presidential Inauguration in the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol in Washington, Monday, Jan. 20, 2025. (Chip Somodevilla/Pool Photo via AP)
Response so far
Trump told reporters early Friday that Attorney General Pam Bondi would be in charge of deciding whether to officially release the tapes.
Following Axios’s release, the president and his allies have doubled down on their earlier critiques of Biden — from his age to mental fitness to the use of an autopen at the end of his tenure.
House Oversight Chair James Comer (R-Ky.) announced late Friday that his committee will investigate what he called a “cover up” of Biden’s cognitive function. The lawmaker said he intends to speak to several former White House aides as well as the former president’s doctor Kevin O’Connor.
Trump also blasted Biden on Saturday, calling the interview a “scandal” and reupping his 2020 election fraud claims.
“Whoever had control of the “AUTOPEN” is looking to be a bigger and bigger scandal by the moment,” the president wrote on his Truth Social platform, later calling his predecessor “a hapless and cognitively impaired Sleepy Joe Biden.”
He added, “THE FIGHT HAS JUST BEGUN!!!”
The messaging comes as many Democrats have cast blame on Biden for 2024 election losses, saying he should have withdrawn from presidential race earlier. Two recent books have also highlighted Biden’s decline: “Original Sin” by Axios’s Alex Thompson and CNN’s Jake Tapper and “Fight” by The Hill’s Amie Parnes and NBC’s Jonathan Allen.
The audio release also comes after the former president broke his silence for the first time since Trump returned to the Oval Office. He recently sat for interviews with BBC and ABC’s “The View,” to the chagrin of many Democrats who have aired frustration with the move.